Barbi: Interview Assignment

Women are Different than Men

What is a feminist? I interviewed Verna Peters who believes that a feminist is a woman who wants full equality with men and rejects the notion of being feminine. She defines feminine as being lady-like, sweet, liking children, and women that are proud of their specific role in life. Peters does not consider herself a feminist. She is firmly against the way women are “asserting themselves and arguing with men.” She believes God “created men to lead.” This is an example of what Susan Faludi would define as backlash. Faludi describes backlash as women who are against, what she believes to be “their own movement”. Many of Peter’s beliefs on feminism are strongly influenced by religion and also by her own experiences.

Peters believes there is no need for feminism today. She believes that it is a good thing that women are allowed to vote, but modern feminism has become too extreme. When Peters said this I thought of extreme feminism which I associate with radical feminism and which brought to mind the Radicalesbians. Radical feminism is all that Peters is against – a reordering of society with men being much excluded. She believes that feminists “have spoiled the view of women and are an unfair competition to men.” She also believes that in almost all cases there is perfect equality for women. In Becoming the Third Wave, Rebecca Walker mentions the difference between a post-feminist and a third wave feminist. Peters would fit under the description of a post-feminist since she believes that there is no longer a need for feminism and does not support the movement. One reason that Verna does not support the movement is her belief in the way God made people.

Peters is a devote southern Baptist and believes that God created men and women different, “for different purposes.” God created men to lead and know what was best while women are supposed to care for the family. She believes that women and men are equal but that each has their own role to fill. Peters believes that the husband is the “first intelligence,” “boss” and that all concerns should be “deferred to the husband.” In return a husband should respect and honor his wife. Women should have the same amount of respect as men but for different reasons such as raising children. Verna was happily married for many years until her husband passed on. Peters does not believe women have to be completely submissive. During the interview she said there were times when she and her husband would argue but that the arguments were always resolved. She believed that her husband always new best although at times he could be “tired and irritable”. In Verna’s opinion there are three purposes to life and that each has its own level of importance. These apply no matter what sex you are. The most important thing that should be put first, above all other, is God. The second most important thing in life is family. And, the lowest of all is work. Peters believes that feminists are putting work above all other categories.

God was also mentioned when I asked her about abortion. Abortion is a moral issue not a women’s issue according to Peters. She believes that “what God created cannot be murdered.” She is very “pro-life,” in the literal sense, meaning that she believes there is one universal truth -- the right to live or to be born. One interesting thing, though, on her stance on abortion was that she did make the exception if the mother was sure to die without having the operation. Ellen Willis who wrote Abortion: Is a Woman a Person? makes the argument opposite of Peters. Willis believes that abortion is a women’s issue and that pro-lifers are repressing a women’s sexual freedom as well as motherhood. Peters is very much against this and does not even see how this argument could exist because she believes women are supposed to be mothers and that God is the most important thing in life.

Another hotly debated issue that Peters looks to God and the Bible for is freedom to choose your sexual orientation. She (Peters) is very much against “homosexual desires” and believes them to be wrong. In her own words “I don’t believe it should be respected, it should be controlled.” She believes a person with a different sexual orientation can still be respected if they reject and ignore their “desires”. Peters mentions a story in the Bible with this situation in which the person was able to change their sexual orientation. Verna believes anyone can change their sexual orientation back to heterosexual because of that. Peters knows from personal experience how this issue can impact a family. She was friends with a couple where the husband became homosexual at one point. Peters said the man rejected his homosexual urges and stayed with his marriage vows and both husband and wife stayed happily married.

Peters received a college education which is extremely rare for women of her generation; she was born in the 1930s. She started out going to an all girl Catholic college, St. Josephs. Peters was not Catholic, but she recalls that she never felt awkward or uncomfortable attending this college. She left college without finishing her degree to get married. After she was married she continued to take a class here and there at many different colleges including Columbia, Julliard, and the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. When she attended Rensselaer she was the only female in her classes. She recalls never being treated any differently or looked down upon because of her sex. Eventually she received her degree in music. Peters is a huge supporter of education and has no problems with women who decide they want to get higher education. At one point in the interview Peters commented on how she was proud that many women now pursue higher education. She believes that at the time she went to college that any women who had the money could get an education without being held back because of gender. With education comes the idea of careers and jobs.

Working full-time for some women is inevitable, believes Peters. Sometimes there is no way a family can manage without the mother working. She also believes that children “suffer if for a bad reason.” Peters believes bad reasons are if the mother is only working to be able to attain more material items such as a bigger house or a nicer car. Peters became a teacher and taught part-time when her children were all in school. Three days a week she taught voice and band at a grade school. She did not think it would be fair to her family if she worked more than that.

I asked Peters if she had noticed ay changing ideas about feminism. She said during WWII and early 1940s men had respect from women because of the way they worked during the war. She believes when the women’s movement reemerged, which she remembered being sometime in the 1970s, women lost some of the respect that they had gained. She could not pin-point the exact dates or names of the feminist movement because she was never interested or wanted to follow it.

I found it very interesting when Peters told me that she believes that the changing ideas of feminism can be summed up with the action of men holding the door open for women. In her opinion, men are giving women the respect and honor the female sex deserves. She believes since the feminists became more outspoken men no longer adhere to this “nicety.” Her son was taught at his prep school to open doors for women and he still follows this ritual. Peters is very proud that her son still follows this social stigma. It was interesting how Peters brought this example of door opening up in the interview because Marilyn Frye discusses this same ritual in Oppression. Frye believes this action to be useless and a pattern in the oppression to women. Both Frye and Peters want respect for women, but each thinks the opposite. Peters believes that by men not opening doors for women it is a show of disrespect while Frye believes it is belittling and a way to oppress women.

I asked Peters how should would define oppression. She believes it to be “being kept down without food, clothing, or proper housing.” A prime example to her is the Communist regime. She does not believe any, especially women, are oppressed in this country. She believes that people “only think they are” and that this is what creates problems. I also asked her how she would define privilege and she said that it is “the opportunity to do something.” Peters, who is white, believes that no race is more privileged over any other although she mentioned some whites think they are more privileged than others, but that they really are not. She believes that everyone has opportunities to get ahead all you have to do is “think” or get an education. This is a very different perspective from that of Peggy McIntosh. McIntosh believes that white people are privileged, but they are taught not to recognize it. McIntosh would say Peters has been taught to ignore her “invisible knapsack” of privileges. Peters believes everyone has equal opportunity to get ahead and all you have to do is get education. McIntosh states that education gave her training to see herself as privileged and as an oppressor. She (McIntosh) believes that people are not all treated equally.

Peters believes men and women are different but equal. She believes women should be treated differently from men, yet at the same time with the same amount of respect a man would give another man. Peters also believes in education for all sexes. Throughout her life she has never experienced any setbacks or negativity due to being a women and therefore sees no need for the feminist movement to continue. From this interview I inferred that feminism to her was about women being treated with respect not because they were a mans equal but in fact because of their feminine nature.