Akstein: Interview Assignment

French Feminism from an American woman’s perspective

Feminism in France found its origins in the French Revolution. It was a hard time for women since although various feminist movements emerged during the Revolution, most women felt the pressures to fulfill the roles of mothers and spouses. Thus, in my search to gain a broader cultural perspective on feminism I decided to interview Ms. Doris Y. Kadish, a distinguished research professor of French and women’s studies at UGA, who also happens to be my French Feminism teacher! I felt much honored to have an interview with this distinguished woman and role model. She not only teaches but also writes books on early nineteenth century literature and slavery in France. The latter topic being of particular interest to me, I knew that we would have an interesting interview to come. Thus, in this essay I attempt to show feminism from an American identified French feminist point of view, which emphasizes in particular the fight against the oppression of women in patriarchal society, and the great challenges ahead for future generations to achieve this goal.

We started the interview right after my French feminism class was over. She was so kind and understanding for taking the time to speak to me. So, right after sitting down on the bench facing our classroom in the SLC, I started asking my questions. I was very curious to know what her definition of feminist was, and how it has evolved over time, so she replied by telling me that she considered herself a “liberal feminist” and that it was more than anything centered on “battling to end the oppression of women by ameliorating their condition through equality for women such as equal pay, seeing more broadly the issue of woman, combating the oppression of women of all classes, races and ethnicity.” Thus, I could notice that her view is very much influenced by second wave ideology, since it was during that time that the women’s movement started focusing on better conditions for women, but also a third wave mindset since she believes in the importance of looking at intersecting forms of oppression, and recognizing different women’s perspectives. I could infer that it was through this definition that she gained her interest in studying nineteenth century literature and slavery in France. Next I continued by asking her what made her become interested in teaching women’s studies and French literature because I wanted to get a better feel for the motivations and beliefs driving her to pursue such an atypical yet fascinating career in today’s society. She told me that UGA is a model for interdisciplinary studies. She doesn’t like narrow disciplines, so women’s studies was a “great way to look at things from a different perspective, and teaching a French feminism course is important since there is such a wealth of material written by French feminists that often gets overlooked.” I could not agree more with Ms. Kadish in that respect. Ever since I started taking her class I felt much more cognizant of French feminist literature and very intrigued to learn more about these women’s lives. After a few smiles I asked her what were some influences in her life, and how they have shaped her current views. She said that most definitely Simone de Beauvoir was the leading role model for her because of the importance she placed on women’s economic independence. Ms. Kadish explains that this concept affected her personally because she was a single mother of three children. There was a lot of pressure at the time pushing her towards traditional roles, but in reading French feminist works she learned how “French women are very independent and articulate in a way that American women are not.” In addition, she emphasized the importance of women having strong role models, and in her family all the women had strong personalities. Furthermore, I had to ask Ms. Kadish if she remembered when the “Feminine Mystique” came out since it was such a pivotal work that defined the second wave movement. Undoubtedly she did remember, but said that the work did not take her by surprise or change her life because she felt that was the direction in which feminism was heading towards. In fact she also had a very funny story to tell me concerning Gloria Steinem. Ms. Kadish told me that she actually met Steinem at a reception in which she was the guest speaker. She had started to talk about the difference between a vaginal and clitoral orgasm, and Ms. Kadish felt confused about this topic and asked her why it mattered. Steinem replied without any hesitation, and the crowd that stood nearby them suddenly vanished because of the taboo nature of the subject. In this situation I could clearly see that Ms. Kadish’s naiveté of female sexuality at the time stemmed from her coming from a conservative upbringing and protected family. She later told me that she wasn’t active in the second wave feminist movement because she had her first child when she was 20 years old, but that she identifies herself as an intellectual and her writing as a form of activism. What followed next was a set of questions concerning Ms. Kadish’s French feminist influences and points of interest. First I asked her when she discovered Beauvoir’s work, and what she thought made her such an influential role model. She began by telling me that she was in her twenties living in France when she first read Beauvoir. She told me that she came to feminism much more through French feminism because part of her upbringing happened there where she studied for a few years. This is why I think Ms. Kadish can relate more to French women than American women. She added that she loved Beauvoir’s existentialism, which inspired her to take charge for herself. She believes that Beauvoir is a model for “feminine agency and how women can change their lives in a feminist way.” Thus, I believe her refusal to marry and settle down with children was such an inspiration for Ms. Kadish especially because it showed her another alternative to living her life. Furthermore, I asked her a question that had always perplexed me regarding Beauvoir’s views on equality in the “Second Sex.” I knew she had studied Beauvoir’s works for most of her intellectual career, so I attempted to know her opinion on the reasons why Beauvoir didn’t suggest making men become more feminine to come up to women’s standards rather than women having to reach the status of men for equality. She explained that it was probably a limitation in her thinking, and that her strengths and weaknesses are that she is an intellectual, which Ms. Kadish can relate to in that respect. She further believes that at the time in which Beauvoir lived, feminist thinking was very limited and still very traditional reinforcing the male-dominated role. So, I think she believed it difficult to reverse roles during Beauvoir’s epoch. And even nowadays it is hard to reverse traditional gender roles, though many feminists are advocating this type of change in our society, which they have so far accomplished with some substantial degree of success. Thus, according to Ms. Kadish, “it is a generational thing and it is your generation that will have to deal with this job.” Moreover, on the same note, I inquired on how she thinks French feminists contributed to the legacy of the worldwide Feminist movement, and if there were any differences in the issues that concerned French women from those of other cultures. To this she replied by telling me that French feminism is very connected with the politics of France and its evolution. Also, French feminism had its beginnings at the end of the French Revolution, which I believed it to focus mainly on the demise of French aristocracy, rise of the people, and a need for basic human and political rights. Ms. Kadish identifies herself as a socialist at heart, which is one of the main reasons she identifies with Beauvoir. Thus, French feminism is all about the politics of class, race, and gender as it developed in France, which constitutes the idea of fighting against oppression in the political arena. Also, Ms. Kadish recognizes that although the American feminist movement has a longer history than that of the French movement, its importance still shouldn’t be overlooked. Furthermore, I asked her if she could give me some insight into her research on French abolitionist literature. She said that even though women were abolitionists in France, they were greatly pushed aside in importance by men such as Victor Hugo. Thus, women tended to be in second place, which I find it to be a reflection of women’s condition up to this day, though with some advancements in their favor. Ms. Kadish also remarked that there were differences in the types of issues that women found to be important as opposed to men. For example, she found that there were two conflicting views: at the time women placed more emphasis on issues of family and children, while men focused on male heroes and battles. So, through her research, Ms. Kadish aims to show the way women are present in literature and history and their different insights. Finally, we reached the final questions of the interview, where I focused on asking specifically her reflections concerning the direction feminism is going. She told me that she sees a lot of emphasis on body and sexuality issues, which she finds nothing wrong within itself, but that she feels is very superficial and that young women are self-indulgent about it. Thus, she thinks that the current generation has lost focus on ending the oppression of women of all classes. In response to this answer, I thought to myself that Ms. Kadish’s concept of feminism is still very much entrenched in second wave feminism. She is very critical of sex-positive feminism because she sees it as reinforcing patriarchy, and that in essence women have taken a step back rather than forward in the fight against discrimination. She later offered some suggestions for current and future feminists. She believes that we cannot forget about the fight for women’s self-actualization. Women need to be intellectually, economically, and socially independent, which is the main argument that Beauvoir emphasizes in her works through the concept of “pour soi” or “for yourself” as translated into English. Furthermore, she suggests that not only women step out of traditional gender roles, but also that they not be afraid of networking with other women. Thus, “by recognizing women as your chief resource, solidarity among women will help resist the various societal pressures.” So, as I observed, consciousness raising in an important tool for gathering greater knowledge of women’s condition, as a supporting mechanism, and for instigating activism of all women. She further adds that transnational feminism is the direction in which we are going. However, she believes that there is still some work to do in building a transnational community. To do so American and French women need to get out of their ethnocentric ways, so as to form global networks. She thinks “it will be to the advantage of all if we cooperate together.” To close the interview Ms. Kadish added that nowadays what concerns her the most is the painful suffering felt by young women dealing with so many societal pressures such as obesity, depression, excessive expectations in family and in society in general. Thus, she ends the interview in a rather sad, but realistic realization. However, she does not believe that all hope is lost if women are willing to make some changes and clarify their goals.

Therefore, after this interview I left feeling very enlightened of having gained a greater knowledge of the French feminist perspective seen through an American woman that has identified herself to be culturally closer to French rather than American feminism in her views. I could also better understand how she came to be inspired in studying the fight against the oppression of women in French society through her analysis of the French abolitionist movement and early nineteenth century literature. Indeed, she is a great role model for women everywhere who need a strong female figure to look up to; she exemplifies the power of persistence through self-accomplishment in the face of societal pressures, and an intellectual prowess that shows the advancements women have made to occupy as important a place as men in the academic world.