Dupre: Interview Assignment

The Metamorphosis of a Women

As people get older, go through high school, proceed to college and grow within themselves, they begin to establish their own beliefs and ideas; their values and standing on controversial issues change. Just as a person's religion can change throughout life, so can one's view on feminism. When I met and interviewed my Spanish professor, Annie, I knew automatically that she was a strong woman with an empowering history; this is why I decided to interview her. I was curious to know her story and I sensed a future connection between us. During the interview I realized that I was correct in my hypothesis. Annie was extremely open and passionate with her answers during our conversation. Her view on feminism has altered since high school and college. She has learned from her experiences and has allowed them to shape her ethics and ideals; she has utilized them in order to become the person her parents never thought she could or wanted her to be, which is exactly what she aimed for.

Annie was raised in a broken home, by a mother more focused on drugs than her children and, as if that was not enough, an abusive father. She grew up as a “little parrot” of her mom's "men are a disgusting waste of skin" ideology.” Her parents constantly fought and and often became violent. Annie's mother tried to get her involved in their arguments, waking her up in the middle of the night to help her yell at him. Annie told me that, “[My mother] openly cheated on [my father], and even told me that it was justified by him not being a real man. She would have me help her find cheap hotels to go to with her lover, and I would get dropped off at Wal-Mart, so they could go be together. So, coming from that environment, as a teenager, it was easy to see men as evil - I was pretty brainwashed.” In high school she was very vocal. She attended a small, private school and went through several phases of nonconformist behavior, and constantly downed men. Annie commented, “In a very preppy, sort of exclusive little school, that was a pretty big deal.” When she chopped her hair off to less than one inch long and dyed it black, “people were looking.” She read “the typical Gertrude Stein stuff”, but didn't really have the freedom, as a teenager in a small town, to really do anything about it. She admitted that “it was all talk and attempts at shock value with the clothes, hair, and rebellious behavior.” She was just searching for something to control or to make her happy. She never found contentment in her home life, school was where she found her sanctuary.

The Spanish language was her passion and Annie wanted to be a Spanish teacher, but her parents had a different plan in mind. They told her that she was taking the easy way out with a teaching job and that she would never “make a name for herself with a normal job.” Essentially, teaching was not a suitable career. They had both already decided her future for her; choosing her high school path, future college, and even her major. Annie highly disagreed with her parent's actions and decisions and began planning her escape at the beginning of her junior year.

Her parents wanted her to go into a premedical career. Her only option, if you could even call it an option, was to apply to a nearby community college where she would have to commute and continue to live in her dismembered home. Annie knew that she wanted to have the university experience so that she could explore her education. She yearned to experience what it was like to be on her own and to fulfill her burning, desperate desire to rid her life of her unstable parents and home life. A Spanish teaching career was her dream job, so she decided to run away to Spain in order to escape her parents entrapment. Starting in Annie's junior year of high school and into her senior year, she began to save up money to buy the plane ticket that would begin her new life.

On the day of Annie's graduation her parents surprised her with a new Ferrari. This was an unexpected miracle that made her plan run much more smoothly. She attended her graduation, immediately drove to the airport, unbeknown to her parents, and boarded her flight to freedom. When she arrived in Spain reality started to sink in; she had nowhere to go. She was homeless and scared, but was also elated to be 5,000 miles away from her controlling parents and stale existence. Annie slept in the foreign airport as an illegal immigrant until she was able to receive the papers necessary to apply for legal citizenship. Once she obtained legality she acquired a job at a jewelry store. After some time she moved to the position of manager. Although this was a wonderful advance in status, it was not enough. She was alone, petrified, and still financially struggling. Annie then began to reflect on her family's history and realized that to obtain a better life she must obtain further education.

Annie comes from a genealogy of well educated and prosperous women. Her last three generations of grandmothers all had a college education and worked most of their lives. Her family has been in Pennsylvania since 1620 and her great-great-grandmother started the first school house in Pennsylvania. Annie learned as a young child, through her grandmothers, that education was extremely important and the key to opportunity in our world today. Annie's escapade in Europe taught her the importance of education. She barely made ends meat with her job in management and knew that she could not succeed on her own without a college education.

While still in Spain Annie entered into an abusive relationship that lasted for three years. She felt as if she had no other alternative than to stay with him. She was in a foreign country where she knew no one and had almost nothing. Realizing that she had fallen into the same trap that her parents had her in, Annie left Spain. After four years of hiding and learning the Spanish language she decided to return to America in order to pursue a Spanish major at a university. This realization led to Annie's exploring of the world of feminism and politics.

 It was in Spain that Annie was most involved in the Feminist movement.  Over there, she was involved with a very different group of people. “All my friends were gays and lesbians, artists, hard core hippies, or all of the above.”  She often went to rallies, marches, and other local events for gay rights and women's rights as well.  Annie told me she sacrificed many things in Spain: “We demonstrated outside a bar when a transsexual friend of ours got fired from working there.  I quit a job, that I really needed, because I felt that it was more oppressive to female employees than to male employees. For example, we were required to do all of the cleaning of the store, which was a big job, while the guys just had to answer the phone if it rang, which it never did. The result was that we were always running around getting things done so we wouldn't get yelled at while the guys sat on their asses.  I was manager of the store and I quit on the spot, so it was pretty extreme.  We really did try to "practice what we preached."”

In Annie's perspective the meaning of “feminism” has evolved over time. When I asked Annie if she identified as a feminist she began to explain how the term “feminist” has become a “bad word”and a self defeating cause in which to devote time. She has nothing against feminism; she agrees with a lot of their agenda such as equality and fair wage, but she feels that the feminist life style “is far from [her] reality.” When she first looked into feminism, she felt that it was empowering to herself and to other women. She used it as an excuse to reject men and to be independent. She was so angry and bitter towards men because of the abuse she suffered that she felt feminism was the answer. Later, she realized that this type of ideology was not entirely correct. The only men she had a right to be angry with were her own father and her previous boyfriend. Annie knew she needed to give other men a chance before making preconceived judgments. “There are good men and there are bad men [just as] there are good women and there are bad women. We should not assume that all men are evil and oppressive, simply because we must fight to be treated as equals.” Annie decided to give men, and people in general, a second chance. In retrospect, Annie thinks that practicing feminism made her cold and irrational. She began to reevaluate her life morals and ideologies.

When Annie was in college she began to understand how a lot of feminist women felt and why they behaved the way they did. Many believed they had to take on the male persona in order to be equal to men. They dressed in a male fashion and cut their hair short; Annie believes that, “women should be women and have their own style. That's how we will make a difference.” Throughout college she realized that she was the exact opposite of what “they” lived for. She found herself surrounding herself with friends who rejected men completely and believed they did not need men and sometimes no one at all, in order to live independently. They needed only themselves. People have a need, as did she, for love. She realized that she can be independent even with a man. Everyone at some point in their lives needs someone to lean on, to share values and memories with; to share existence. “No matter how much you deny it, no one wants to be desolate. That does not necessarily mean you have to have a partner, but all humans were created to depend on someone.”

In later years, Annie found a man who shared the same ideas and values as she did, and who respected her more than any member of her family ever did, or ever will. She is now married to that man and feels liberated by him. She looks forward to being a parent, but plans on raising her children in her own way. She does not intend on raising them in a traditional or conservative way, she “kinda hates that”. However, Annie believes that women should take pride in house work and taking care of the family, but she also embraces and plans to always respect education and being a part of the household income.

Professor Annie is one of the most compelling and influential teachers, as well as adult,that I have encountered in a long time. Annie has inspired me to want to embrace my beliefs and ideologies, even though they are entirely different than many other people's views. Annie's abusive, “man-hating” mother forced her to fear and reject men, until she was able to create her own opinion once she was free of her. Her devastating domestic atmosphere, experiences abroad, and her current lifestyle today, has shaped her life into what she, as a strong, confident liberated woman, represents. This assignment allowed me realize that every human has the opportunity to be who and what they want. People's ideas, morals, political and religious views, and personal identities can change at any time and people should not be judged for that. As people mature through their lives of innocent elementary kids, awkward middle schoolers, rebellious teenagers, and explorers of adulthood their way of behaving, thinking, and choosing, changes copious times until it truly defines “who you are.”

Strong Individualism

Individualists place a great importance on the strength and integrity of individuals. Because of this trait, most place a higher emphasis on personal traits and strengths rather than on issues of race, class, and gender. This description is perfect for my grandmother, a woman who seems to share much with feminism on the surface but is closely aligned with an individualist way of thinking underneath. As I interviewed my great-grandmother I became surprised that although she embodies many feminist ideals she does not consider herself a feminist.

Born in the 1920s, Mary Haugk quickly learned to be a strong woman. She remembers always having a job and refers to most of her upbringing as “backdated” or old fashioned. Although her family was well off, she had to work for what she wanted. As she joined the workforce, she brought with her the ambitious and assertive qualities she had learned as a young adult. She worked as a telephone operator and quickly made it known that she wanted “top pay and top raises” and would not accept anything else. The job was a closed shop operation and she was forced to join the union, which was segregated by gender. She quickly became discouraged with the union and applied for a managerial position. She started to associate the women who relied on the union to help them instead of helping themselves as “weak sisters.”

Mary got divorced in the 1940s, a time when most of the world was less tolerant of those kinds of acts. Realizing that she would have to raise her family on her own, she started work at Bell because they offered several more benefits than her old job. As a working divorcee, Mary states that backlash amongst her male counterparts was surprisingly minimal. “Never at Bell Labs,” she stated, although “the operating company tried to hold [her] back.” She quickly moved on from the operating job into the managerial positions she would hold at Bell for the next 15 years, part of that time as the only woman overseeing an all male research group of PhDs. A possible reason for the lack of backlash is that she worked mostly with educated, upper class males, professor-types, who were generally more accepting of Mary and her assertive nature. While working at Bell, Mary became convinced that women were their own worst enemies within the workplace and that they must overcome their prejudices against each other in order to truly prosper.

When I asked her what feminism had meant to her, my grandmother said she “never liked the feminist movement” and equated the movement as a union for “weak women.” Although you could say that this correlates to Susan Faludi’s piece “Blame It on Feminism,” the truth is far more personal in my own opinion; Mary Haugk saw herself fighting to get ahead in life while those in the unions and the early feminist movement made a lot of noise and not much else. Because my grandmother was working and thriving in a period during which the feminist movement was not widespread she sees her own actions and not the actions of the feminists as the reasons for her successes.

As we delved further into her working career, Mary showed that although she had no ties to feminism, she still did things that would be considered feminist today. She was progressive in the work environment for much of her career and was a staunch believer in “giving credit where credit was due.” She maintained a working relationship with the unions and, although she encountered a lot of prejudice against African Americans, generally worked well with them. While working with mostly white male management Mary helped her fellow women to move up the corporate ladder, regardless of their class or race.

Although Mary took great pride in her illustrious career working for Bell, she had to work many hours almost seven days a week. As a result, as a single mother, she encountered problems faced by other women in the 1980s. Mary’s children quickly learned to be self-reliant and assertive as Mary herself was. My grandmother sometimes had difficulty finding a babysitter when the children were young and took on boarders from the nearby Nursing school in order to help with this problem. By the time the children were fourteen, Mary stopped having boarders and the children could largely operate the household on their own, had their own jobs to supplant the family income, and helped deal in the finances.

Mary was an intelligent person, but she never went to college. Although she never had a classical education, while she was on the job she learned as much as she could about the operating systems and Bell. She was one of the only women in her department with computer training. Even without a degree, she was able to make more money than someone with one in part because of her tremendous work ethic and her assertive ability to get what she wanted. As part of her job overseeing the designers, Mary tested products and pushed through operating systems that revolutionized the nature of the telephone. When the designers would design something too complicated, Mary would “send it back” and explain that they were designing for the consumer. She also tested operating systems for the phones and told the designers on more than one occasion to “go try it for themselves” when the systems failed. In this way my grandmother showed her assertiveness and willingness to do top notch work and do well for the company; she remarks that some employees told her jokingly that she was “stamped by Ma Bell.”

As I asked her about the nature of feminism, it became clear that my grandmother was truly an individualist. When asked what she thought the goals of feminism should be, she replied she considered the movement “practically dead.” She acknowledges that women have come a long way, but is unsure if feminism is the true reason behind it. In her estimation, women have achieved what they have because they have “gotten more aggressive” and have “strong work ethics.” She says that now the country is “more accepting” of divorce and other reproductive rights than in the forties and fifties and admits that women did not have many choices and were “downtrodden” then, remembering that in some of the male dominated operating switchboards promotions for the operators was determined by sleeping with their bosses. She thinks that women have definitely created these new opportunities and freedoms “for themselves” by “pulling themselves up by the bootstraps.”

Mary Haugk could be the face of the second wave feminist movement – she was divorced, had an illustrious career, and eventually remarried and retired very successfully. However, her personal views correlate with an individualist; she believes in the power of self reliance and personal strength. Even though she did not identify herself with the movement, her successes and achievements mirrored the Women’s Lib movement’s efforts at reaching equality with men in the workplace and acceptance for personal decisions.

Smith: Interview assignment.

Interview: Annette Strong
Feminism encompasses many different beliefs, the belief that men and women should share the same rights being one of them. Both men and women should be feminist; however, even many women do not consider themselves feminists. Because of backlash and other demonizing propaganda, term feminism turns many people away. During the Interview of my mother, Annette Strong, I found that although she doesn’t identify with feminism, she does agree with many views that feminism holds.
Annette Strong is an African American female born in the midst of the civil rights movement December 24, 1964. Although she hasn’t read many feminist articles, her experiences have lead her to the same conclusions and beliefs that many African American feminists. Mrs. Strong was born in Atlanta, GA, during a very dark part of American history. During this point, African Americans were mistreated and segregation was alive and well. She says she had a happy childhood and wasn’t aware of the glass ceiling and the other barriers that affected her. She is the youngest of four daughters, who shared the same room. She said that her parents were the hardest working people she knew. They always kept food on the table, and provided all of their needs, and many of their wants. As she got older, she says that she began to realize the gap that existed between her rights, and the rights that she was supposed to have. She said that she started to notice the differences when she got to college. She said that before college that there weren’t many differences to recognize because everyone was the same race and class, but when she got to college at Georgia State she was shown the preferential treatment that others of different sexes and races received. She realized that in her math and other subjective classes, that she was doing really well, but in her objective classes, like writing, she was making C’s because her professors didn’t agree with her point of view. She said she had to learn to work the system and give the teachers what they wanted to hear.
My mother also told me that although college showed her that she had to fight and earn an equality that should have been given to her, she really began to recognize the difference when she got into the workforce. After entering the workforce, she began working for many men who believed that they were superior to her. Although they never said that they were, she could tell by their actions and they way that they treated her. Often there was, and still is an under-qualified male in charge who tries to tell her what to do. She says she continues to study and earn degrees because she doesn’t want to have to put up with the discrimination from those who could possibly control any part of her lively-hood. She has continued on to receive 4 degrees, one being a degree in law from Kennesaw State.
Annette Strong should be a role model for many women. I say this because with all of the odds stacked against her, she has managed to succeed and exceed all expectations stacked against her.

Raines: Interview Assignment

Activism as a Mother

Stephanie’s flight had been delayed. She was flying home for winter break from her small, women’s college in Pennsylvania. I had always thought that was stupid. Stephanie wanted to be an English teacher. Why did she need to go all the way to Pennsylvania to earn a degree no more credible than the one she would obtain here at an in-state tuition price while also receiving the HOPE scholarship? And plus, why on earth would anyone ever want to go to an all girls school? That was certainly not the college life I had always imagined. It just didn’t make any sense to me. There I sat, in the food court of the Atlanta airport with only my cell phone and Stephanie’s mother, Sheila, to entertain me. I had never really sat down and had a conversation with her beyond the typical conversation a girl may have with her best friend’s mother. I couldn’t tell you exactly what was said during that discussion, but something hit me hard and left me with a newfound respect for the woman and an understanding of why she found Stephanie’s decision to go to a women’s college so important. Later, when it came time to begin this project, the conversation I had with Shelia came to the front of my mind.
Sheila Purdin is a thirty-nine-year-old, Caucasian, liberal, divorcee, and mother of two. She recently converted to Judaism and currently works in early education at a congregational preschool while also attending school full time to earn a degree in English education. These are all important components of Sheila’s identity; however, one intersection she did not mention to me was feminist. Though this woman may not actually consider herself a feminist or an activist, the way she has raised her children, particularly her daughter Stephanie, would suggest otherwise.
During the interview I asked her if she considered herself a feminist. She responded, “I suppose it depends on how strict of a definition of the word you use. I like to have someone open the door for me… But do I think that women should have the same opportunities? Absolutely. And do I think women are less capable? No. Not all.” This seems to be typical for women of her generation. While they share some similar ideals with feminists, they still believe in certain traditions and acts of courtesy. Sheila grew up in an Agnostic, Caucasian family in a small town named Port Angeles on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington state. She attended gifted education classes in small neighborhood schools, which played an important role regarding Sheila’s feministic mindset. While in school “[she] always felt that [she] had to choose between being smart and being pretty. If [she] wanted a guy to like [her], then [she] had to be stupid… or at least not smarter than him. [She] always found that to be hard.” Another influence on Sheila’s opinions was the role of her mother. “My mom grew up thinking that she had to graduate from high school and get married,” she stated, and though she may have followed the exact same path, her mother’s influence became a primary motive for her to ensure that Stephanie knew that various options were out there.
Sheila certainly would not consider herself an activist in the feminist movement; however, she freely supports activism of any kind. Although, she attended a few protests in Seattle when the U.S. first invaded Iraq, she notes that “It was really more about being in an environment with people who were like-minded. I kind of wanted to see what it felt like, more than I was making a political statement. I wanted to experience the idea that people have a voice and that they have a right and responsibility to use it.” When she was first in college, she became deeply interested in the Civil Rights Movement. Though primarily all she did was research, she stated, “I used to wonder if I would have the courage to do what they did… people who truly are activists… I think that’s cool, even if you don’t agree with what they’re doing. It takes a lot of gumption.” She has become active in the current election but only by attending a few meetings for Obama where she makes phone calls. She also actively works for the advocacy for Autism Spectrum Disorder through her workplace. She has not participated in any feminist movements or protests, but this certainly does not mean she has not been active. Her activism has been more subtle, private, and mainly executed through her relationships with her children.
In certain ways, Sheila has post-feminist ideals. She claims, “I don’t think of things as clearly defined by gender lines as they were a generation ago. I have no interest in becoming more active in the feminist movement. I feel that their women’s issues are worthy topics; however, they are not the most pressing things to me personally.” What she does not realize is that she already is active in the feminist movement.
While Sheila may see herself as post-feminist, I gathered the idea that she can be considered third wave because it is inclusive of practically anything, including the way you raise your children. Sheila made a valiant effort to remove society’s stereotypes from her children right from birth: “I was huge on giving them non-gender related, non-stereotypical toys… But it didn’t matter what you handed Stephanie, she would make it beautiful. She was so girly. She always was and she always will be. And this one? [In reference to her son] Please! Everything is a weapon! It doesn’t matter. You could give him nothing but Barbie Dolls and he would shoot with them. They were so stereotypically defined by their genders that it was weird to me. And I was almost trying to get them to not be!”
Aside from that, Sheila also took special care in making sure Stephanie did not feel the same sort of oppression growing up. She made it certain that Stephanie never felt torn between her beauty and her brains: “Stephanie is a beautiful gifted girl who was identified very young and naturally very feminine. Always. And it was just the person that she was. But I always wanted her to set her standards high and expect a lot from herself and to believe that she could be both.” And she has.
Even according to Baumgardner and Richards, Sheila can be considered third wave because of other factors. She is pro-choice, supports the use of birth control, supports women in the same positions as men, and certainly wishes to “liberate adolescents from slut-bashing, listless educators, sexual harassment, and bullying at school.” However, Sheila has no desire to “tap into and raise awareness of our revolutionary history.” She has the mindset that large waves of extreme feminist activities are in the past; however, in more personal ways, she is still actively fighting for the same causes Baumgardner and Richards were.
Sheila’s strong encouragement for Stephanie to attend a women’s college can certainly be considered an act of feminism, especially according to Rebecca Walker’s definition: “To be a feminist is to integrate an ideology of equality and female empowerment into the very fiber of [her] life. It is to search for personal clarity in the midst of systemic destruction, to join in sisterhood with women when often [they] are divided, to understand power structures with the intention of challenging them.” This is undoubtedly similar to Sheila’s ideals in that “[she] really pushed Stephanie hard to go to a women’s college. [She] really wanted her to surround herself with like-minded women during this time in her life when she is really sort of learning to be comfortable in her own skin and to decide who she is and, you know, figure out what direction she wants her life to go from here.” Whether she realizes it or not, these ideas can certainly be classified as feminist. Women’s colleges coincide with Baumgardner and Richard’s point to “share the same goal of equality, and supporting one another in [the effort] to gain the power to make [their] own choices.” This line of thinking shared between women’s colleges led Sheila to believing “that [Stephanie] didn’t have to know what she wanted to be when she grew up. She just needed to know that the person she was inside of her skin was a good one, and that she could set lofty goals for herself. And then to surround her with people who were doing the same thing.”
As for her hopes of the future of women’s studies, Sheila thinks “women need to learn to celebrate one another and their accomplishments... [she] wish[es] that we could have this shift where we celebrate each other.” She would like to see more unity and less cruelty: “Women in general are pretty mean to each other, especially young girls… and [she] would like to see that change.”
Perhaps Sheila Purdin was not the most idealistic interviewee for this project. She married young, had children, has never yelled at a man for opening the door, and certainly has not participated actively in the mainstream waves of feminism. She is radical in no sense of the word. However, I am fairly sure that the whole idea behind this project was for me to learn something, which I have done. In particular, I learned that although stepping out of your comfort zone to speak up and actively fighting something you feel passionately about is important, it is not the only way to make a difference. You don’t have to hate men, burn your bra, or go to radical extreme measures to get people to listen. You especially do not have to participate in these actions to be considered a third wave feminist. Stephanie’s decision to attend an all women’s college seems far more justified now that I have had the chance to fully understand her upbringing.

Oparah: Interview Assignment

From the Out… Looking In: An International Perspective

Feminism. As an apprentice to that which is the feminist movement, I have in these two and a half months, gained a surplus of knowledge on issues and ideologies associated with the feminist movement. Having taken a Women Studies course prior to this one, I’ve realized that the times that I learn the most (and truly get to the heart of women studies) are when I am able to experience and take part in the raising of our ‘consciousness’ or sharing of personal experiences. It is this reason why this assignment holds particular interest. After hearing what was required of this assignment, I immediately knew who I wanted to interview. Vivian Patricia Oparah. Yes, she is my mother and a native of Nigeria. Although she could be looked at as simply a convenience, I chose her due to the fact that I felt that her experience as an international feminist; her transition from Nigeria to the life of an American feminist could be crucial to the consciousness raising of both novice and veteran feminists. So, with interviewing Mrs. Oparah I hope to expose to you, my reader, a new and interesting perspective on the feminist ideology that will hopefully bring insight of the feminist movement as it occurred in Nigeria to other feminists.

I began the interview in the only way I saw fit, asking the question, “When I say the word, “feminist” what is the first thing that comes to mind?” I felt that asking this question would rightly set the tone for the duration of the interview and be the foundation as to how I would structure the remainder of my questions. Her reply was concise and truly not what I expected from my usually overly talkative mother. She replied with, “When you say ‘feminist’, the first thing that comes to my mind is that she/he is fighting for equality. She/he is struggling to gain female empowerment.” When answering the question, she made sure to emphasize the possibility for a male to be just as good as a feminist as a female. I quickly followed with another question that I intended it to reveal more of my mother’s views on feminism; where it’s been and where it’s going. After asking whether she felt that there was any particular stigma that was associated with the term ‘feminist’, she replied with, “I do believe that there is a somewhat negative air around the word. I feel that people in today’s society feel that women should be at home cooking, cleaning, washing clothes, etc.” She made a point in saying that, “I feel that the populace deem feminists as going ‘Overboard’ and are taking the feminist movement and push for equality ‘too far’”. Soon after hearing her response I began to think about the heavy backlash against the feminist movement and how throughout the years of the movement it has greatly influenced how the movement is perceived by others. It is this issue that Susan Faludi discusses in depth in her text, “Blame it on Feminism”.

“What is the definition of feminism…” Strangely, this next question that I asked of my mother was one that I debated on whether to ask it first or now but I felt that asking the question now would allow for more thought, so I did. My mother’s reply, did in fact, have much more depth this time around, telling that she believes that feminism is, “an obsessive individual fighting for their rights... I feel that these rights are the best thing that can happen to this person or her/his group. I believe that feminism is when someone protects womanhood and how she defines her being (whether it’s staying at-home or working in a large company). I also believe that it is a MUST that any particular feminist to have an organized ideology that underlines their beliefs.” After hearing this rather detailed and complex definition of feminism, I began to ponder and decipher the meaning of a couple sentences and words that she used to describe ‘her feminism’. One word that stuck out the most to me was her use of: obsessive to describe the individual. Usually when I encounter the word obsessive I immediately begin to associate it with something negative. When it was used in this context, I went back to how she discussed earlier that most people felt that the idea of the feminist movement was going ‘Overboard’, ‘taking it too far’, or rather ‘overly obsessing’. After taking a quick second to muddle over this issue, I felt it was due time to investigate her personal ties to the feminist movement.

My next question, although both blunt and cliché, seemed to get the most interesting of responses. I asked simply, whether or not she considered herself a feminist and was met with the following reply, “Yes, I would although, I would consider myself a passive feminist.” In describing her ‘passive feminism’, she described it as such, “I am not an active participant and so not presently contributing towards the push for equality. Yet, I can subscribe to the beliefs of the feminist movement. Let me also mention that although I recognize how women’s roles have been devalued and the struggle to regain equality in and out the home, I do feel as if women have a special role to play within their household and with their children.” After hearing the phrase ‘special role’ being used, I knew that I would have to get clarification on its meaning so I asked a series of questions to better understand the implications of this ‘special role’ of women. She told me that this role is female exclusive and includes the woman’s duty in nurturing; her children, society, and ultimately her nation. It wouldn’t be until later in the interview that I would understand how this strong belief of hers came to be… it wouldn’t be until later that I would understand how being born and raised in Nigeria had affected her feminist ideologies.

At this point in the interview, I felt it was due time to investigate the more International aspect of her feminism. My first question was posed in a way to get a feel of how she has experienced feminism in another country, “Having been born in Nigeria, do you feel that you or the country actively participates in the Feminist Movement?” She answered, saying that the country had definitely participated in the feminist movement on the same issues that were prevalent here in America (women’s suffrage, equality at work, equality at home, etc.). She continues to tell her story about how the fight for equal education between the sexes was probably the most notable, memorable, and most relevant to her. For an extremely long time in Nigerian history, women in every household were put in the background as far as education was concerned. Taking place in what is considered the second wave of feminism; women throughout Nigeria begin to push for equality in the workplace and in doing so, must also push for getting women educated. My mother discussed how her generation was the first to take that step into educating their women and interestingly how it was her father who truly pushed his daughters to get a higher education. It was during the years of the second wave in Nigeria that families began to realize that women were indeed being treated unfairly and unequally. Families in Nigeria began to realize that women not only had the capability of filling the role of ‘mother’ but also could excel politically, socially, economically, etc.

I was curious after this explanation as to whether or not there were actually laws present in the Nigerian government that created this sort of education subordination of women. So I posed to question whether there existed, in her years in Nigeria, laws that inhibited and barred women from certain opportunities but not men and the answer was, “No, there were no written laws.” Similar to American customs, there were of course traditional/unwritten laws that existed that placed women (and men) in their societal roles. She went into some detail about one of these traditional laws/practices and that was that men should be ‘trained’ while women are groomed to be married away. It was the idea that families shouldn’t ‘waste’ their money on females (who would soon be married away to another family) but instead they should invest their money into their sons and keep the ‘wealth’ in their families. Other than the educational inequality, Nigeria (much like America) had a suffrage movement of its own, which occurred in the late 1950s as Nigeria was fighting for its independence from Britain. Women like Margaret Aoekpo and Ransome Kuti who were at the forefront of the feminist movement in Nigeria were fighting fiercely for the women’s suffrage movement as well as educating females. After learning of this, my mother unexpectedly switched subjects and told me of her view of American feminism…

She began by stating that her view of African-American females in America was jarred after coming to America. She believed that upon arriving in America that the African-American female was more in the forefront of the black community than the African-American male. She felt that when coming to America, that this was more the case than in Nigeria. She stressed how she felt that women were better off, more successful and better educated in America more than in her home country. So, after interviewing my mother I’ve gain a deeper knowledge of feminism from an international perspective.

Lowman: Interview Assignment

A Seasoned Sort of Feminism

Sitting in the cool shade of a covered patio listening to the wind pass through the leaves of the river oaks and the marsh grass, my interviewee and I were put at ease by the calmness of our surroundings. On the patio were souvenirs from around the world and a table topped with a piece of glass to protect the pictures layered between the two surfaces—evidence of travels and experiences meant to be shared. Barbara McPipkin, indeed, had much to share about her life. As a sixty-five-year-old, middle-class, southern white woman from Savannah, a happily married mother, and a devoted grandmother, she lived through the cusp of the first and second waves of feminism and currently witnesses what is considered to be the third wave; further, she experienced through the decades the changes from one mode of thought to the next within both social and feminist ideologies. As society became more progressive, women conjured the strength to challenge societal expectations via consciousness-raising and embraced the concept of the “new woman.” Although she spent most of her life in a conservative era where society expected women to fulfill a certain role, Barbara eventually transgressed the confines of that era’s social restrictions through the implementation of her individual, feminist-aligned views and her heightened awareness of the oppressive forces at work before the time when women voiced their subordination.
I began my interview with Barbara by asking her to give a definition of feminism: “Independent thinking for a woman.” Feminism can be defined in multiple ways, but the essential understanding of the word embodies the idea of total equality. While I believe women need to demand an equal position to men within society, this demand should not be at the expense of denying our womanhood. Reflecting Elizabeth Cady Stanton’s concept of differences between the sexes in the “Declaration of Sentiments,” our maternal nature and emotional depth are innate differences that separate us from men; in that sense, we have strengths unknown to the male persona granted through biology (Stanton 548). Later in the interview, I asked if Barbara identified as a feminist; she looked at me with a curious expression, then answered after deep contemplation that she “does now, but [I] haven’t always. It’s come with age.” Barbara described a time when “feminism wasn’t an option” because women were unaware the concept existed. I found this interesting considering the force of the feminist movement now as a primary result of consciousness-raising. By gaining access to education, exposure to culture and knowledge has illuminated woman’s inferiority within the male-dominated society. This illumination did not occur for Barbara until after her marriage to her husband. Like many other women of her time, she married at the age of eighteen because that was what was expected of young women. Barbara described the oppression she felt due to societal expectations and limitations: “No one thought women wanted an education. I think I didn’t realize I was capable of more than what society afforded me.” Women before the transition into the second wave of feminism in the 1960s were raised simply to be beautiful and to perform domestic jobs well in preparation for marriage; however, the arrival of the sixties was pivotal in the struggle for women to define themselves. Barbara mentioned Woodstock as a catalyst in the emergence of freethinking among women and the breaking of a “pattern from the way it should be and the way it could be replaced it.” This transition truly embodied what feminists meant by a “new woman.” Women after the sixties no longer wanted to allow their lives to be governed by what society deemed appropriate; instead, they dared to broaden their female “sphere” by immersing themselves into the work force and educational institutions.
Though she grew up in a conservative era when society valued traditional marriage roles, Barbara’s views reflect those of a true feminist: equal partnership. She describes a role-playing system within a marriage entirely exclusive of sex and gender; instead, one spouse assumes a role as a leader and the other as a supporter depending upon the situation at hand. Again, Barbara stressed that her feminist approach to her marriage developed progressively. Her ideas now reflect her growth as a woman and her self-realization that her way of living life should not be established by anyone but herself. Ultimately, Barbara allowed herself to become an independent woman through her own marriage. By working within the boundaries of marriage, Barbara’s method parallels the liberal feminist cause—activism within the established system. She disproves Betty Friedan’s notions that marriage and happiness are not unanimous; Barbara obtained a college education while married, opened her own interior design studio, and continued to pursue intellectual and artistic endeavors through community involvement in organizations such as Arts on the Coast and the Savannah Historical Society (Friedan 46). She admitted that she was “one of the lucky ones” because her husband was not a domineering man and allowed Barbara to freely pursue her goals. She further describes much of her young adulthood and the caging effects of many marriages during that time: “Women before now suffered in silence, and if you had a bad situation, you just had to grin and bear it.” Ironically, when I asked Barbara if she had any recollection of the publication of Friedan’s The Feminist Mystique in 1963, she denied any knowledge of the book whatsoever. Barbara discussed the transformation of women after the sixties, though, saying that a change occurred, and suddenly women felt as if they could “talk about their issues and share [them]”—a direct result of the introduction of consciousness-raising. She did, however, remember reading Gloria Steinem’s articles published in the popular magazine “Cosmopolitan.” Barbara professed that she “never could identify with [Steinem], explaining that she would agree with parts of the feminist writer’s arguments but never the whole. She specifically referenced one of Steinem’s arguments stating that she “didn’t mind a man opening a door for [her].” I smiled to myself at this comment, remembering a heated debate early in the semester in my Women’s Studies class as to whether men should or should not open doors for women.
Having discussed marriage, the interview naturally led itself into the discussion of motherhood. Barbara refused to believe that women could maintain full-time careers and successfully balance work with motherhood: “I just don’t think it’s possible. You can have a part-time job but a mother needs to be there during the formative years.” She further argued that dropping children off at day-care at six o’clock in the morning then picking them up at six o’clock at night did not constitute parenting; rather, such a life showed a woman’s denial of her biological role to nurture and care for her children. While I believe that Barbara has a valid argument, I find the ultimatum she presents confining by forcing women to stall a certain aspect of their lives in order to introduce another; when one door opens, another door should not be forced shut. Additionally, she supported the use of contraceptives but condemned the use of abortion as a means of birth control. She described abortion as if it should be regarded as a common medical procedure; however, its availability must be limited to cases of rape or when the woman’s life is in danger. She stated, “There are too many people who want babies and can’t have them due to medical reasons. Young girls or women who are pregnant but can’t take care of a baby should have a place to go.” By mentioning a place to go, Barbara presented the idea of potential adoptive parents providing care and other necessities to pregnant mothers until the baby was born and the adoption papers were signed. Her decision to support abortion grants the right of the mother to life; however, denies a woman of her right to choice.
With the progression of power within the feminist movement, changes within society have followed this progression, some changes rendered positive others negative. While women continue to effectively separate themselves from the traditional societal standards for a woman, society has instilled a new oppressive standard of beauty. Barbara stated that the “persona of physical beauty has always been there, but people haven’t always been so hung up on physical appearance.” She jokingly remarked that women are too skinny right now, but a truth resounds in her perception. With the emergence of media and easy access to sources of media, society now establishes a certain “type” of woman that is deemed beautiful and to be regarded as such, we must conform. Barbara, ironically, described a more individualistic woman in regards to appearance: “What looked good on you was what you wore.” I find a certain strangeness in the individualism of beauty during the first and second waves, yet women then were more confined by both location and society. Though media has produced a narrower view of feminine beauty, it has also made women more comfortable with their sexuality. Barbara described that she “[felt] more normal now than when she was growing up.” In previous decades, the female body was a taboo subject not meant for discussion. When a girl first began her menstrual cycle, she generally had no idea what was happening to her body because her mother never mentioned puberty and the transformations a female body encounters. Summarily, women have a healthier outlook of their bodies today than in years past.
In conclusion, Simone de Beauvoir expresses a basic truth in the feminist movement: “If woman seems to be the inessential which never becomes the essential, it is because she herself fails to bring about this change.” Having lived the majority of her years in a conservative era, Barbara has actively challenged traditional views by not accepting to comply with society’s standards. She has made herself the “essential” through her life choices (Beauvoir). Although she has taken a passive role in expressing her subordination within society, Barbara relied on her individuality to guide her in her choices and to protest the constraints placed upon women of her generation. As a result, Barbara, a feminist at heart, provides my generation with an understanding of how women should continue to progress in our struggle for equality.

Tomassini-- Interview Assignment

“Militarized Femininity: Major L. Tammy Duckworth”

On November 12, 2004, Army Captain Tammy Ducksworth lost both of her legs when the UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter she was co-piloting was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) by Iraqi insurgents. The explosion nearly completely destroyed her right arm as well, breaking it in three places. She received a Purple Heart and was promoted to Major on Dec 21 at Walter Reed Medical Center, where she was presented with an Air Medal and Army Commendation Medal. On November 21, 2006 Major Duckworth was appointed the director of the Illinois Department of Veterans’ Affairs by the state Governor.
“I will always place the mission first. I will never accept defeat. I will never quit. I will never leave a fallen comrade.” These statements as she spoke, I remembered as the Warrior Ethos, a powerful part of the Soldiers Creed. They are gender-neutral statements that get at the heart of what it means to be an American Soldier to the both of us, and all who came before us. “I am not a big fan of being identified as a woman anything. I work so hard not to be different from the other Soldiers for most of my career. I have usually been the only female in an all male unit. When I first began my career, a generation of females had already pushed through the obstacles for women in Army Aviation.”
Like any group of people, some were outstanding Soldiers, while others simply used their sex to gain an unfair advantage. This is something I also personally saw throughout IET and still today in Cadet land. Their over-reliance on their sex paved the way to a negative impression of female soldiers in their male counterparts.
“By the time I came along, these men were in leadership positions and were even less open to female troops than pervious generations. We had to make our way, one at a time, by proving we were just as good as our comrades all over again—this time by being gender neutral and tough.”
When asked about her feelings on what she felt about the band on women in combat, she replied, “It is stupid and unrealistic under the conditions of modern warfare. The country needs to know that women are fighting, dying and that we need to move on, just like we don’t discuss African Americans’ or Japanese Americans’ service based on their race as we did In World War II.”
When I asked about Major Ducksworth’s personal thoughts on militarized Femininity, I got more than I bargained for:
“As the Military brings women into combat positions, both the militarization of femininity both in the military and in the media evolves. Remember the story of Jessica Lynch’s capture and rescue? The military described the Ideal type of the woman soldier: tough, but not violent; brave, yet still in need of defense; a soldier, but still innocent. In reaction to the abuse at Abu Ghraib, we learn what the woman soldier should not be: sexual or violent. The current Ideal type of female soldier allows them to participate in war-making and war-fighting, but denies them agency in unwomanly decisions, like those to sexually torture prisoners at Abu Ghraib. Even in a world of where constructed womanliness has a strong influence on decision-making, woman have agency in their choices.”
I also asked for her personal advice about overcoming being a female in today’s army she left me with this last bit: “It is all about being tough and professional. This nation is a remarkable place where little girls can indeed grow up to be whatever they want! We have all done our part to protect the freedoms of all the little girls who want to grow up to be nurses, policemen, firefighters, or, yes, even pilots.”

Twyne: Interview Assignment

I have certainly learned a great deal about women through our women's studies class, but I have probably learned even more about women through my job. For close to a year now, I have worked at a sorority house. The house is managed by an eccentric older woman who, among other things, is very talkative and opinionated. Not only is Ms. Lohse a character in herself, but she is charged with the well being of the nearly sixty young women living with her, a position exerting no mean influence. It was this combination of traits that led me to select Ms. Elizabeth Lohse for my interview assignment.

Elizabeth Lloyd Lohse was born in June of 1948, making her fifty nine years old. Affectionately known as “Ms. Liz”, Lohse was the youngest of three in her Cincinnati, Ohio home. Her parents were both college graduates who instilled the value of education into their children's minds from an early age. Lohse's mother worked as a zoologist until she began having children, at which point she became a full time mother. This practice continued until Lohse's eighth birthday, at which point the elder Lohse resumed gainful employment. Gender roles between father and mother were very orthodox, but Ms. Liz enjoyed a rather less traditional female childhood. Building things from scrap wood or sailing with her father were common ways of spending a Saturday afternoon. Around age seven, Lohse decided the teachings of her Episcopal Sunday school class were insufficient and told the teacher to “shove it”. Such behaviors embody the very open-minded, academic attitude within the family.

Education is a strong trend throughout all of Ms. Liz's family. Both of her grandmothers received college degrees before the turn of the twentieth century. There are a total of twenty three women in Lohse's family with higher education degrees. I can only imagine how difficult it must have been for a woman to reach that level of schooling in a time when females lacked the right to vote. An example of such hardship can be seen in Lohse's own sister, Martha. After receiving a full ride to Smith State University, Martha became pregnant and very soon thereafter married. Apparently marriage and/or pregnancy were deemed incompatible with higher education, because Martha's scholarship was revoked. This unfortunate setback failed to faze Ms. Liz however, who went on to earn three degrees from Smith State, Miami of Ohio, and UGA, respectively.

Although she identifies as a feminist today, Lohse says it wasn't always that way. “Its hard to put a name on history while you're living it,” she says. The practice of feminism was introduced to Lohse at a very early age by older women of the family who had all been suffragettes. It was not until later that she became familiar with the abstract philosophy of the women's movement. One of Lohse's favorite feminist themed books is Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Safe by Fannie Flag. Ms. Liz also mentioned Betty Friedan and The Feminine Mystique without any prompting, but then immediately went on to confess that she had never read the book. The excuse that she offered was straightforward enough, simply that living women's liberation in everyday life left little time for more abstract reflection. Spending much of her life in a liberal education setting, Ms. Liz was also able to surround herself with other progressive thinkers. In this environment, the notion of women's rights would have been much less out of place than in general society. When I asked for her definition of feminism, Lohse simply replied that feminism was being bold. I was rather surprised by a one word answer from such a typically verbose woman, but her description makes more sense with some thought. The word bold beautifully fits the attitude of a feminist. It denotes courage, unconventional thinking, and a willingness to challenge the status quo. Ms. Liz certainly lives and has lived the life of an empowered female. Before the interview even started, Lohse began to show me the myriad of letters, magazines, plaques, and photographs she had gathered for our talk. The most interesting thing was a small trophy from Smith State University, naming Ms. Liz as the founder of women's athletics there. Such a grand achievement started of rather ironically; Lohse wanted to meet more men. Pursuing a home economics major in the sixties essentially meant that all Lohse's classmates were girls. Eager for more coeducational interaction, she jumped at the chance to join a club gymnastics team being formed at the time. As Lohse's talent grew and she became more intimately involved with school athletics, she realized that there was a need for official women's sports. Changing school policy is no small task, especially when change would mean less funding for current programs. However, by organizing the female athletes and tenaciously protesting at athletic department meetings, Lohse was finally able to secure ten percent of the athletic budget for female use. Throughout the interview, Ms. Liz constantly reiterated the need to ask for more than you want. This philosophy ties directly back into the idea of being bold, of striving towards a goal without restraint. It also reminded me of several class discussions concerning the extremist rhetoric in some of our readings. These authors likely held the same view that Ms. Liz does, namely that striving for excess makes the fulfillment of basic needs appear more reasonable to those in power. Lohse consequently graduated as a professional athlete, two years before title nine was instated.

While she certainly advocates being aggressive, Ms. Liz said she has never strayed outside the bounds of society in the pursuit of her goals. To the contrary, Lohse enjoys making use of the established system as a catalyst for change. Perhaps this is why she cites women in leadership roles as being the most profoundly positive achievement of feminism today. She particularly admires Golda Meir, the former prime minister of Israel, Nancy Pelosi, the congresswoman from California, and Sally Ride, the first woman in space. Lohse also feels that improvements in feminine hygiene products and technology have provided women with much greater freedom of movement, as have more physically liberating clothes. The latter are particularly important to Ms. Liz, who played three varsity sports in her life. “Newer clothing styles and materials allow women to achieve their full physical potential,” she says.

Throughout her life, Ms. Liz has always identified as a heterosexual female. Since I draw many of my opinions of feminism from my interactions with women, I thought it only appropriate to ask Ms. Liz about her interactions with men and how these have effected her view of gender roles and feminism. Lohse married her college sweetheart and was very active in his fraternity. They were married for six years, at which point Ms. Liz “divorced the bastard”. She actually asked specifically that I include the word bastard, the purpose of which I can only guess at. Her explanation was that “the man i married was not the man I divorced.” Lohse's love life became increasingly less traditional from then on. Her next relationship was an affair with a boss, a man she admired greatly but had no intent of marrying. The following two relationships were romantic but not sexual, one involving Ms. Lohse assuming the role of surrogate mother. Ms. Liz's last romantic foray involved a trucker from Georgia. The man in question asked her out to dinner but was critically injured in an accident before the date could ever occur. This series of diverse relationships covers a broad range of the themes and attitudes we have discussed: traditional monogamy, love without sex, and sex without love. Aside from what I was told in the interview, Ms. Liz is clearly a very sexually liberated woman. She has a favorite joke about “blank” happening about the time she has her next orgasm. Its actually quite funny to hear the way she blends extreme sexual openness with antiquated, prudish words and phrases. To be more specific, I have heard much more about Ms. Liz's sex life than I feel comfortable printing here, however the last story I was told made extensive use of the word “knowing” (in a biblical sense).

One of the main reasons I wanted to interview Ms. Liz is that I was curious how she used her role as house mother to influence the younger generation of women. She spoke briefly about how difficult it is for the girls and her to relate at times, but emphasized leading through example. Based on my observations however, Ms. Liz likes to take a more proactive approach. It is not uncommon to hear what I might call “public service announcements” during dinner, addressing topics ranging from “lady like behavior” to nutrition.

Having spoken in depth with Elizabeth Lohse, I am amazed by how thoroughly her life parallels what we have studied in class. She is truly ahead of her time. I admire Lohse's pragmatic approach to personal realization, and her willingness to challenge the norm. This interview has made me aware of how much personal narrative remains wasted, a problem our project will work towards solving.

O'Barr: Interview Assignment

Elaine O’Barr
McCauliff
WMST 2010
7 March 2008

Regina: Third Wave Feminist

I was raised in a strict Independent Baptist church in which women were not allowed to wear pants or hold church positions. My father was the head of our family and made all the decisions, and for a long time I saw nothing wrong with this. When my mother got a case of what Betty Freidan refers to as “The Problem That Has No Name,” she made the decision to remove herself from this destructive situation by asking for a divorce. I cannot recall any time before this that my mother had expressed herself so strongly. I became curious, almost obsessed, about my mother and why she felt the way she did. In a teary conversation she once told me it was not that she did not love my father, she just “felt constricted...tied down.” This is when I uncovered the un-proclaimed feminist side to the women in my family. I was ten when my parents divorced, and since then my mom and her sisters have made a point to raise the girls in our family on the belief that you should never let a man hold you back or put you down. For my interview, I chose one of their close friends. She is a woman who unintentionally had a lot of influence on the women in my family. Her name is Regina and my mom refers to her as the “coolest, most free person in the world.” This paper will focus on Regina and her embodiment of Third Wave feminism.

Regina is a thirty five year old who is strongly in touch with her identity as a woman. She has never been very present in my life, but, through my mom and aunts, she has vicariously influenced my beliefs. Since I was young, I have always heard a lot about her through the stories I’ve been told by my family and have been curious about her choices. Regina is a free spirit and makes the rules for her own life and I have always admired this about her. Marisa Navarro talks in her essay “Becoming La Mujer” on how being a real mujer (woman) in the Third Wave means being who you want and being absolutely proud of it (Navarro 45). Regina is the personification of this statement.

A strong stance of Third Wave feminism is the right to choose to do whatever you think is right for you, and the right to be free of judgment for these choices. Regina has chosen not to marry and not to have children of her own because she feels it is right for her. When she was younger, she always assumed would grow up, get married, and have 12 kids. Having been raised in a large extended family in which divorce was very rare, she understands the extreme commitment that comes along with marriage. While she appreciates the long term relationships she has had because they made her who she is, her independence and freedom are very important to her and she has never met someone she was willing to compromise those for. If she met someone now that she wanted to spend the rest of her life with, she does not feel she would not marry them because she “has been single too long” and likes her life the way it is. Regina does not regret any of her decisions because she is “very happy with who she is and could not be that if she had not made the choices she did.” (Regina 2008)

In our Women’s studies course we have discussed how certain assumptions are made about women who do not marry and have children. I asked Regina if she had ever experienced this and her immediate response was, “Oh Yes!” She lives in Kingsport, Tennessee where almost everyone marries at 18. She says, of course, lots of people assume she is a lesbian and her family and friends wrongfully assume she is readily available to baby-sit or that she will attend their gatherings alone because she is not in a committed relationship. People’s lack of compunction in regards to this part of her bothered her when she was younger, but the more she has matured the less this affects her. She would agree with Audre Lorde’s belief that one part of your identity is not able to substitute for your whole. The fact that she is single does not make her who she is; it is her personality and spirituality that play that role.

Regina and I discussed the variety of ways she has benefited from her choice to remain single. While reviewing a study by Jennifer Baumbusch on Lifelong Single-hood of Third Wave feminists, I found that most women who choose lifelong single-hood reported the same benefits Regina did (Baumbusch 113-114). The most important on her list was her travels. She has been able to go a lot of places and do a lot of things, such as spend a month in France. She is also currently in graduate school and she feels these things would have been difficult for her if she were married or had children. Regina placed a lot of emphasis on her freedom because she enjoys not having to compromise and check with another person before she makes decisions. This is what most of the women in the Lifelong Single-hood study reported was the best part of their choice to remain single (Baumbusch 113-114).

Regina had the most to say when I asked her what the word or idea of “feminism” meant to her and whether or not she would identify herself as a feminist. The first thing that came to her mind as to her definition of feminism comes from a bumper sticker she once saw that reads “Feminism: The radical belief that women are people, too.” This idea stuck with her over the years and shaped her beliefs of feminism. Regina simply believes that “we are all just people, whether male or female from any race, and neither is better or worse.” She discusses how she feels every woman, no matter her color, has to believe in her equality with any man and asks how any woman could not identify as a feminist. (Regina 2008) This is a question that had not occurred to me before and opened up a new definition of feminism to me: Feminism is what most women strive for, even if they do not identify as a feminist. Every single woman that has ever asked her husband to help out with the chores around the house, felt they had the right to vote, or do anything else that a man can do believes in the idea of feminism, whether they proclaim it or not. This is true because feminism is just equality for woman, and nothing more. An Australian woman named Su, who was quoted in Amy Richard and Jennifer Baumgardners’ Manifesta, sums up this idea as she says “[Feminists are] just women who don't want to be treated like shit (Baumgarndner 1).”

Regina epitomizes the ideas and beliefs of third wave feminism. She has chosen to remain unmarried and has chosen not to be a mother. She demands that she be free from judgment for these choices. She is active in multi-cultural issues and considers anything that stands up for a person’s rights to be a form of activism. She recognizes the benefits and drawbacks to lifelong single-hood. These are all stances of third wave feminism. Feminism is simply the notion of equality for women and every woman has to love herself enough to know that they deserve this. Women have to know that they are not defined by a man. Every woman needs to adopt her idea that feminism is more than just something to believe in; it is something to live by. We have to make this our way of life.

Bibliography

Jennifer, Baumgardner, and Richards Amy. "What is Feminism." Manifesta: Young Women, Feminism, and the Future. General Women and Feminism. 2 Mar. 2008 http://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/genwom/whatisfem2.htm.

Navarro, M. (1998). Becoming La Mujer. In O. Edut (Ed.), Adiós Barbie: Young
Women Write About Body Image and Identity (pp. 38-46). Seattle, Washington:Seal Press.

Baumbusch, Jennifer L. "Unclaimed Treasures: Older Women's Reflections on Lifelong Singlehood." Journal of Women & Aging 16.1/2 (2004): 105-121. Academic Search Complete. EBSCO. [Library name], [City], [State abbreviation]. 7 Mar. 2008 http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=a9h&AN=13757765&site=ehost-live.

Regina. Telephone Interview. 1 March 2008.

Sandbach:interview assignment

Lauren Sandbach

WMST 2010

K. McCauliff

7 March 2008

Four Generations of Feminism

            When I began the Women’s Studies course at the University of Georgia, I felt like I had a fairly good grasp on feminism and its role in history. As a history major, I know all about the Seneca Falls convention. I had to memorize Margaret Sanger’s name and her affiliation with birth control for several exams, and I even wrote my essay for the 2006 AP American History exam on women’s role in history. Besides feeling fairly informed on the issue of women’s rights, I also felt I understood my family’s viewpoint and role in the feminist movement. However, after studying feminism for a few short months, I realize I was completely wrong. My mother and I are fairly close, and I would discuss different class topics with her immediately after class. Our conversations typically ran as such:

“We talked about abortion today in class. I thought I knew exactly how I felt about abortion, but now I’m totally confused and I really don’t know where I stand.”

“Well Lauren, you know where I stand with abortion, right?”

“Of course Mom, you’re against abortion. You’ve told me probably a million times that you would never get an abortion and you don’t agree with it. You always tell me how you don’t know how a woman could live with herself if she did this. You are pro-life.”

“Actually, that’s wrong. I am against abortion, but I’m pro-choice. I’m totally against the government telling a woman what she can do with her body.”

            I was entirely shocked at this answer. My mother has always been my best friend who knows me better than anyone in the world. I thought I knew everything about her, but I completely misunderstood where she stands on an issue as important as abortion. This led me to reconsider my other assumptions on my family and our history, which is why I chose my grandmother to interview. Much to my surprise, after the interview with my grandmother, I discovered a feminist trend inherited by each generation in my family.

            When I ask both my mother and my grandmother if they identify with feminism, they claim not to be feminists. My grandmother, Francis Doty Crawford, at age 72, claims  “I used to be turned off by feminism. You see women in the news who are so down on everyone else and I’m sure the females have done well by this because we have gotten better pay in jobs. I am not one of these people- I’m calmer. I try to make peace rather than cause friction. However, I do feel like women are entitled to equality.” I am automatically skeptical of her denial. Even in her explanation, she shows characteristics of feminism. Not only does she support higher pay for women in the workforce, she feels they should be treated equally to men. While this may not characterize radical feminism, it is far from an anti-feminist attitude. Francis claims the viewpoint that women are equal to men, which is at the heart of the feminist movement. First wavers such as Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Lucretia Mott claim “That women is man’s equal—was intended to be so by the Creator and the highest good of the race demands that she should be as such.” (Seneca Falls resolutions)

            Without even realizing it, my grandmother reinforces not only her feminist identity, but also the feministic qualities of the past three generations of women in my family. She begins describing my great-grandmother’s independent, self-sufficient lifestyle. In her generation, women were not expected to go to college. However, my great grandmother had such an intense love for children and a need to be independent, she went behind her father’s back to receive a teaching degree. When she returned home, her father realized how important teaching must be to her, so he built her a school and allowed her to teach. Francis notes that he always felt embarrassed because people thought she was forced to work because he couldn’t support his family. Women in her generation did not work unless it was out of necessity. The feminist movement was far from where it is today. However, that did not prevent my great-grandmother from pursuing exactly the lifestyle she wanted. However, her life was not without hardship. Besides criticism for working as a schoolteacher and obtaining an education, my great-grandmother lost her husband to leukemia and had to raise three children on her own. Although she did not choose to be without a husband, she somehow found a way to put her three children through college. My grandmother describes how her father was a Kentucky farmer, and the government took his land away during WWII. Her mother used this money to fund college for her three children.

            My great-grandmother had a major influence on the woman my grandmother is today. Francis tells me that her mother repeatedly told her “you never know what tomorrow will bring. You have to be prepared to support yourself. I’ll put you through college but after that, you’re on your own.”  Her words greatly influenced my grandmother’s decisions in life. Not only did she go to college to support herself, but throughout her life she never had an expectation to depend on men or other people to take care of her.  She married my grandfather, but the marriage quickly turned detrimental. He was an abusive alcoholic at the time. My grandmother says, “When I came along divorce was a bad word. Many people wouldn’t let their children play with your mother because I was divorced and many women thought I would steal their husbands away. I was raised that you did not divorce but when it came to the choice of my child or divorce I chose my child and put her first. I couldn’t handle seeing my child suffer for a choice I had made.”  I recognize her situation as a double bind: she knew she and her daughter would have consequences in society if she left her husband; however, if she conceded to society, she and her daughter would remain in an abusive situation. As Marylin Frye states, she was in a situation “which options are educed to a very few and all of them expose one penalty, censure or deprivation.” (Frye 2.)  I believe my great-grandmother directly impacted her decision, because Francis states, “ I was very aware of my mother’s independence. My husband resented my mother for her independence, but I admired her for it. I knew that if she could raise three children on her on, then I could do it. This was the final push in my divorce.” Without such a strong, admirable role model, I wonder if my grandmother would have been able to leave her unstable situation and if I would even be here today.

            My grandmother’s divorce certainly impacted the way she raised my mother. She says the most important advice she gave my mother was to get through college. “Your mother always had good insights,” she claims, “and I knew she would be fine. Everything is hard work; you have to work at everything. I knew that if she got through college then she would be just fine.”  Just like her mother before her, my grandmother always expected my mother to receive an education and support herself.   In contrast to her mother and grandmother, my mother has a traditional lifestyle. She has been married for twenty years, and she works part time. However, her choices do not prevent her from instilling the same independence and motivation for an education in me.

            Francis’s history also influences her present views of feminism. Her opinions strongly characterize third wave.  Even though she does not claim to be a feminist, most of her views reflect feminism.  After having to support herself and making her own decisions for an extended period of time, my grandmother has a true appreciation for women’s choice. She states, “I think it should be a choice [to join the workforce].  Women should have the choice to do whatever they want to do without feeling held back by other people.”  Her views result from the tough decision she made to divorce her alcoholic husband. Although other people did not accept her decision, she made a choice and did what she felt was necessary for herself and her child. As a true third wave feminist, she believes that women should not be left without an option; they should always have the right to choose.

            My great-grandmother’s single parent lifestyle directly influenced my grandmother and my mother, which in turn affected me. If my great-grandmother had not been such a strong, admirable figure in my Francis’s life, she never could have left her hazardous situation for a happier, safer life. Both women exhibit outstanding examples of feminism through their bravery, strength and independence. Their lives reflect examples of true feminism in times where women rarely objected to the lifestyles planned for them. These women passed their character on to my mother, which I strive to exhibit in my life as well.

“Seneca Falls Resolutions.” The Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Convention. 1848

Frye, Marilyn. “Oppression”. The Politics of Reality. p. 2. 1983

 

Agbor: Interview Assignment

The reasons in which I chose Ms. Gloria Lumpkin as the subject of this interview are many. The main reason though is the fact that Ms. Gloria represents a voice that is not often heard in the song of feminism. Black feminist such as Barbara Smith and Audre Lorde both have low income backgrounds, yet do not represent the working class. They both lead the life of a scholar, living in the “ivory tower” of academia, aloof to many common tribulations of the struggling. They were also in the forefront of their respective feminist movements. What about those in the backseat? Another reason for my interview with Ms. Gloria was to measure exactly how powerful certain feminist waves swept through the country, to women who were not at the “forefront of the wave”. Did they get wet? Were they drowning in the surge? Or did they watch the wave from a distance, then watch it subside. Athens is no New York City. Feelings are not the same. I’m curious in which ways though. My reason for this interview is to find out how feminism has touched the life of a working class woman from Athens, Georgia.

Meet Gloria Lumpkin, Athens born, is a 55 year old custodial worker in Creswell Hall at the University of Georgia. Graduating from a segregated high school, Ms. Gloria has seen the city of Athens change a good deal. “Things have come a long way”. Ms. Gloria has one daughter and has been part of the workforce since 1974. I have had the opportunity to have known here for almost 2 years now. She is an experienced woman and a treasure to everyone who knows her.

If there has been any signs of feminism in Athens for the past 40 years, then Ms. Gloria would definitely know about it. I approached Ms. Gloria with the idea of me interviewing her on feminism in Athens. She apprehensively said yes and the ride ensued.

“Some women, they're all about their feminist.”. It seems that backlash is typically the immediate response to the term feminism. The connotations of which are so negative that the majority of people proclaim to have absolutely nothing remotely similar to ideals of which it suggests.”To me it's an attitude”. Despite this backlash, Ms. Gloria agrees with many of the points of feminism (or at least post-feminism). Ms. Gloria feels that there were many areas in society that did not do women justice. Areas such as education, employment, and the family.

It seems that many people are very quick to dismiss feminism even if they don't exactly know what it incorporates. Its surprising to find that most anti-feminist have actually never even met a feminist let alone accurately identify the points in which they disagree. “I've never met a feminist, everyone I know believes in let a man be a man, let a woman be a woman.”

“Let me stay on my side of the fence and you stay on your side of the fence. If I got a flat tire, I'll let you [male] fix it. I might hurt my back!”. Ms. Gloria sees that men and women both have roles in this world and that these assigned roles are given in The Bible. “Women should play a supportive role, not lead”. She mentioned that this doesn't work out many times because many men don't follow God. “Women aren't meant to follow un-godly men.”. When there is a lack of godly men, Ms. Gloria suggests that women must lead herself.

“A woman gotta work 'cuz we got some sorry men.”

I don't know if this viewpoint is shared among all working class people. It seems that depending on which source a person derives their values (parents, friends, religion), that will dictate their belief in assigned roles. Nonetheless, I'm not sure how much 3^rd wave feminism has affected women of the South. It seems that many still believe in assigned roles morally, supportively, sexually, and caretaker-ly. They restrict women from fixing their own cars, grilling their own barbeque, and leading their own lives (if they can help it).

“[Women have] come a long way [concerning employment], things have changed.” Ms. Gloria has worked in many occupations in Athens. The progress she referred to is not increased pay or increased conditions, yet it was the vertical movement of women in the workforce. “Things have changed, 10 years ago, you wouldn't have Condoleezza [Rice] or Hillary [Clinton].” She commented that there is little that a woman can't do these days. The possibilities have been made virtually unlimited.

I was curious about her thoughts on this subject because in Creswell Hall, all of the domestic custodians are female. “There was a male (domestic) custodian before, but the parents started to complain. No one complains about an old lady coming into the bathroom to clean.”

It doesn't seem like the “vertical movement of women in the workforce” has been felt by the women of Athens. I don't think this is due to any lack of feminism, it seems as if this is attributed to the lack of economy. Man or woman, vertical movement in the workforce is not a thing Athens is known for. Athens is one of the poorest cities in America.

“You have more women than men in college. They're hungrier. Men are full, they're getting lazy”. Progress is something that Ms. Gloria has definitely witnessed throughout her time here in Athens. Women are now encouraged to pursue serious careers after they graduate from high school, not merely go to college in order to find a potential husband to rely on.

“Both (feminism and a matter of time) helped this progress along.” She commented how that Roe v. Wade helped get abortion onto the topics of discussion. Now abortion isn't an “under the table” ordeal anymore, leading to safer procedures and more support from others.

“Let a woman be a woman, let a man be a man”. This mantra sums up Ms. Gloria Lumpkin's view on feminism. I don't know how much of Ms. Gloria's words can be correlated to the feelings of others in Athens, but I still have learned a good bit of how it differs from the perspectives I have studied in the past.

It seems that there were definitely some ripple waves of feminism trickling down to Georgia. It seems that feminism did not hit America like a tsunami. It was more of a slow, subtle process, soaking up feminism bit by bit. By the time 10 years pass, the nation is noticeably soaked with feminism. It is a wave that affects one person at a time, one event at a time. It turned the direction of the nation's thoughts and feelings one degree at a time. Slowly but surly, the direction turns from south to south-east, from southeast to east, and the nation slowly made a 180 degree turn in the way it views woman and her meaning in the world.

Moon: Interview

Moon: Interview
Sitting in a smoke filled room, while looking at the gray haired lady before me, it is almost as if the word “feminist” is written across her forehead. Cigarette in hand, Hoap Benefield exemplifies all that every female should strive to become. Her strength echoes from her posture and bounces off the walls around us. We begin our conversation like two old pals gushing about our days. It is hard to imagine that this woman is 50 years my senior. Thirty minutes after my arrival at the ranch-style home, I finally get to the point of my interview; feminism. Hoap looks at me strangely for a second, then replies, “What do ya mean? Those bra-burning types?” It was hard to contain my chuckle as she said this, but I did my best to keep my composure. At that very moment I realized that this Alabama native had no idea that she was in fact a raging feminist.
Before getting straight into the feminist aspect of my interview, I took some time to get some information from my interviewee. Hoap Benefield was born and raised in Valley, Alabama. Her two parents divorced when Hoap was still a child. Hoap's mother was described as “way before her time,” because the woman went through five marriages before her passing 1986. Hoap's mother was a very interesting woman, and Hoap described her as a woman who “would rather be out partying than at home.” Her mother worked in a mill all her life. This was the same mill that Hoap worked in for four months before leaving because she couldn't stand the conditions. Hoap and her mother lived with her grandfather until Hoap married her husband, Wade in 1958. Six years ago, Wade experienced a massive stroke which left his right side completely paralyzed. Since the stroke, Wade has lost the ability to form whole sentences and communicate effectivly. However, that did not stop this spunky 69 year old. She has been Wade's primary caregiver for the past six years, and life has not skipped a beat. This is why Hoap struck me as an interesting interview candidate. Her ability to live as a strong woman in a difficult situation and still live life to the fullest. Hoap Benefield resonates what it means to be a feminist, and she uses her power as a strong woman every single day.
Our conversation flowed smoothly as we discussed some views that Hoap had about the word feminism. All of her words weren't foreign to me, for they were the same misconceptions that many had about feminists. When asked if she had any stereotypes of feminists, she did not skip a beat before answering, “Lesbian.” It was extremely interesting to hear Hoap's views because it gave me true insight on previous waves of feminism. While sitting at Hoap's kitchen table, I pulled out my WMST 2010 book and read aloud an excerpt from Rebecca Walker's article, Becoming the Third Wave, “To be a feminist is to integrate an ideoglogy of equality and female empowerment into the very fiber of my life. It is to search for personal clarity in the midst of systemic destruction, to join in sisterhood with women when often we are divided, to understand power structures with the intention of challening them.” Hoap's reaction was a little delayed, because I think she was a bit surprised by the words used to describe feminism. After a few seconds, Hoap said, “I think I like that definition a little bit better than the bra-burning one.” We continued chatting about what it meant to be a feminist and Hoap enlightened me on Bubba, her 12-pound pomeraninan's latest blunders. This woman was a trip.
We shared a few more laughs before continuing on with the interview. My next questions were centered around inequalities in the workforce, and these sparked great stories from the aged-woman. Hoap worked full time before her pregnancies, in major department stores. Working in management, Hoap worked closely with men whom were supposed to be her equal. She said that in her time women mostly worked as clerks and men were above them. “It was just the way it was,” she said, “No one questioned it.” I brought of the idea of sexual harrassment and Hoap chuckled at the question. She said that it was an everday thing. “Men felt it was their right to say and do the things they did,” she said. Hoap explained that throughout her lifetime, men had always made unwanted advances towards her, ecspecially in the work setting. This, she said, was a direct result of being a strong woman. It was something that had been happening to women for years. Women either “hid their face” or said, “Get your damn hands off me!” When I asked her what she did in those situations she replied, “What do you think? Of course I said 'Get your damn hands off me!'” Hoap continued to say that sexual harrassment was something that needed to be stopped not only in the workforce, but in the social world as well. When I asked her what it would take to stop these harrassment issues, Hoap replied, “Standing up for yourself, and letting everyone know about your experiences without the fear of what the response will be.” After her statement, I informed Hoap that she was highlighting every major feminist point in the book. She looked at me and smiled and I knew that this woman was starting to see feminism in a whole new light.
Before continuing onto a new question, I expanded on what Hoap had previously just stated about “letting everyone know about your experiences without the fear of what the response will be.” I questioned Hoap on if she had any experiences of receiving negative reactions to her outspoken disposition. She smiled and answered jokingly, “You get a lot more fingers in traffic.” We laughed for a few seconds before she continued more seriously, “Of course men think you're a bitch if you tell them what you think and why you think it. And some women see you too aggressive. But overall, being outspoken has only gotten me farther in life.” Hoap explained further that being as outspoken as she comes with responsibility. “If you say something, you have to back it up,” she says defiently.
Our interview was already an hour underway and I still had so many things I wanted to know about her. This woman had been through it all. From triumphs to tragedies, Hoap had succeeded with flying colors and still lived to joke about it. She was extremely interesting and full of stories that could make a person laugh out loud or burst into tears. There wasn't a dull momeny in out interview and I was reluctant to end our time. However, I knew that it was time to wrap up my questions and let the woman get on with her dinner. Therefore, I asked Hoap my final question, “Given the new difinition of feminism, and with all the we discusssed, do you think that you identify as a feminist?” Hoap looked at me and said, “I guess I do, just don't tell your grandfather.”
Hoap Benefield was extremely fun to interview and gave me an increased insight on different views of feminism. I chose her because I knew she would provide non-censored answers to the questions I asked. I also see her as an independent feminist, who fights for equality without even knowing it. She is what third wavers would call an “unintentional feminist.” Hoap doesn't stand in picket lines or march with crowds, however, she stands up for what she thinks is right and does the same for everyone else. What I admire most about Hoap is not just the she is my grandmother and has the kindest heart, but instead, it is her passion about life and liberty. Hoap Benefield, born and raised in Valley, Alabama and who once idenitfied feminists as “bra-burners,” is in fact a feminist in 2008.